Rules change for HSAX 2014 season

[MBC Racing]

So what can we expect to see for changes???

Eric is acting as HSAX director I believe..... We made proposals and voted. some passed some failed. Next step I think is he presents to council and then they are voted on to be updated in the gcr.

a couple I know of that passed are street tire classes being allowed to port and polish stock heads, allowance of aftermarket ECU or computer tune in all street classes but not allowing increase of boost. The boost thing was touchy...... Mainly because it is key strokes to pick up an extra hundred hp so that one will need to be addressed in the future. Not my battle because I run real tires.

deletion of points for rim diameter
deletion of points for injector or carb change
2 points for intake manifold change

Modified point assesment for intercooler change and addition.

Official stuff will be posted soon.

[Evilution]

So what can we expect to see for changes???

[qjohn]

I don't think the points can be adjusted so it is an even playing field for all mods and all cars. Without compelling problems, I'd say no need to fix.

Hopefully the committee will discuss the proposal at the meeting Saturday and make a decision then. Sorry I will miss the event.

JQ

[MBC Racing]

Some of the points assesments are out of wack..... 3 points for intake and injectors/carb vs 2 points for cam swap or cyl heads.... you get more bang for the buck out of a cam or heads than an intake. Thats why I am proposing the 2 points for the intake. Its possible to pick up 10+ hp out of an intake swap.

[qjohn]

Ya, but swapping injectors or raising fuel pressure on a stock engine in a stock class will serve ZERO purpose. You won't gain any power. So if somebody wanted to do that.... more power to them. They are just wasting money. If somebody did do mods that required more fuel, bigger injectors would just put the injector duty cycle back into a safer range (80% duty cycle). Its a supporting mod, so why get wacked twice for one mod?

Good point. I would still look into what benefit I can get out of some change with whatever car I have. Lots of adjustable fuel regulator companies at least make claims of better performance, and I'm sure I could find a half HP somewhere. Also I could consider manifold swap and stay in stock class, cause I could upgrade the fuel metering to match and still use only 2 points.

Looks like the purpose of the proposed change is to lower the points of carb + manifold swaps from 3 to 2 and allow unrestricted carb and fuel injection changes. I'm against it because it lowers the barrier (in points) for modifications to too few points.

JQ

[MBC Racing]

Eliminating change of fuel injection points would cause us to all look at fuel injector sizes and adjustable pressure regulators and I don't know what else. Too much freedom to spend time and money, in my opinion, without taking points. Right now, the 2 point assessment pretty much keeps it out of stock classes and that is a good thing.

John Q

Ya, but swapping injectors or raising fuel pressure on a stock engine in a stock class will serve ZERO purpose. You won't gain any power. So if somebody wanted to do that.... more power to them. They are just wasting money. If somebody did do mods that required more fuel, bigger injectors would just put the injector duty cycle back into a safer range (80% duty cycle). Its a supporting mod, so why get wacked twice for one mod?

[qjohn]

I like the proposal for allowing wheel diameter changes without points. It allows drivers who show up with huge rims to not be penalized and it allows downsizing, for example from 17" to 16", to save money because smaller rubber is cheaper.

Eliminating change of fuel injection points would cause us to all look at fuel injector sizes and adjustable pressure regulators and I don't know what else. Too much freedom to spend time and money, in my opinion, without taking points. Right now, the 2 point assessment pretty much keeps it out of stock classes and that is a good thing.

I have the same opinion on the proposal elsewhere to eliminate points from all bushing swaps. The points serve an essential purpose: to deter people from spending money on this type of modification. Should be left as-is.


John Q

[speedbugy996]

I would agree with all that you listed Brad.

[MBC Racing]

I have an additional rule change that I plan to propose:

CHANGE #1
I propose the deletion of point assessment for Carburetor or Fuel Injection Revision section 6.3:
"Carburetor or fuel injection revision on stock manifold ………2 pts” and “Carburetor or fuel injection revision with non-stock manifold……. 3pts”

CHANGE #2
I propose the modification of point assessment for Intake manifold change section 6.3:

Current: “Intake manifold change or adaptor without carb or fuel injection change……. 1pt”

Proposed: “Intake manifold change, modification or adaptor………. 2 pts”


From GCR:
Engine
Engine displacement change (per each 3% increase) 1
Engine swap, all engine swaps will be classed in the appropriate Race or Street Tire Class
Removal or tampering with emission control device, per device 1
Removal of catalytic converter(s) 1
Intake manifold change or adaptor without carb or fuel injection change 1
Carburetor or fuel injection revision on stock manifold 2
Carburetor or fuel injection revision with non-stock manifold 3
Air intake modification (air box) excluding filter element change 1
Camshaft change 2
Valve size change and/or head modifications 2

[MBC Racing]

Rules change for HSAX 2014 season

I originally had this in the HSAX section. Moving it here.
See original post for some of the previous discussion.

http://mcscc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1775

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I want to get this started early so we can have a good list put together by the rule-a-thon.

I discussed this one with a few people and they seem to be in favor of it.

I am proposing to remove the point assessment for change in wheel DIAMETER.

"Change of rim diameter, per full inch increment (up to 16” = 0; greater
than 16” = 1 per inch from stock; Decrease in rim diameter from stock = 1 point per inch) varies"

I don't see any real advantage or disadvantage with changing. Yes, there may be a slight advantage of effective gear ratio by going smaller, but as far as effect to times.... I really don't see any. I think this will allow people who are on a budget to use what they want with out the point penality.

I definitely think we need to keep the rim width point assessment. That does allow you to run a wider tire that does yeild an advantage.

thoughts?

[MBC Racing]

Just moved/regunivated to Rule a thon section.

[Bill Minor]

Confusion, sorry

Another suggestion would be to make a separate discussion for pointed HSAX rules like we have already for street tire class rules.

Sorry, what I meant say was we already have a discussion going on rule changes for RAT. Some proposed changes may get lost if comments are in two places in the forum.

Bill

[Bill Minor]

Tire Wheel (rim) points changes.

This is timely. Due to the recent wheel size increases on newer cars, 16 to17, 17 to 18, etc. not every high performance tire tread design is made in every rim size or width. Thus some older cars have to take points to run best available tires.

But I also know that there can be some gear ratio advantages to increasing rim/tire diameter on some of the tracks we run. Example would be if you have to upshift with stock rim diameter but using a larger rim/tire diameter would allow you stay in the lower gear and not have to shift.

Another suggestion would be to make a separate discussion for pointed HSAX rules like we have already for street tire class rules.

Bill

[speedbugy996]

the larger the wheel and tire combo the more effective contact patch there is availible

if you do the larger aspect ratio you are canceling out the effect because you will roll the sidewall of the tire but if you keep the same sidewall height yes your gear ratio changes but you are getting more tire hitting the ground


in my opinion

The sidewall part of your comment would be accurate, but in the test I was referring to it was minimal. They were starting with a short sidewall to start with and only went from a 40 to a 45 so not much difference in tire roll over there. If we're talking older cars with 60 or 65 aspects I think your point would come into play much more.

[mikeracing]

the larger the wheel and tire combo the more effective contact patch there is availible

if you do the larger aspect ratio you are canceling out the effect because you will roll the sidewall of the tire but if you keep the same sidewall height yes your gear ratio changes but you are getting more tire hitting the ground


in my opinion